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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.17 16:29:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 17/10/2008 16:32:55
 Originally by: Kerfira
Edited by: Kerfira on 17/10/2008 12:21:24
EVE:
Month 1: Whiner pays for play time and skill training.
Month 2: Whiner demands free skill training because he paid last month.
Restaurant:
Month 1: Whiner pays for meal and drinks.
Month 2: Whiner demands free drinks because he paid last month.
Both are companies selling their products. Why is one required to give away theirs for free?
I go to clubs and restaurants quite a lot (at least 1x per week).
So I usually give large tips and, in exchange, I get free drinks, free entrance, guestlist listings, vip accesses.
The day my fellow bartenders or restaurant managers refuse to give me a freeby here and there I am going to reevaluate my clubbing habits.
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.17 19:52:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Freezehunter
A question just popped in my mind...
I once got banned for indecent language, for 3 days...
If i ever get banned again, will my training be disabled for the duration of the BAN?
If yes, *BEEP* you, CCP...
If not, ghost train nerf was a good idea ^^
I don't think CCP renders your account inactive if gets banned - As they can punish you with you not being able to log in and play while they get 3 days off your subscription time! => $$$PROFIT$$$
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 10:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 18/10/2008 10:23:35
Originally by: killerco
Good move on the switching off the training for accounts that does not pay!
Well done! It wasn't fair too those who pay money too play and train!
I've seen loads of these posts recently.
But how is it unfair at all to ppl who keep their subscriptions active 365/a ?
Does it hurt the others if you ghost skill?
No - Because even accounts which are active 75%/a and played 0-75%/a are a better revenue to CCP than no accounts at all.
No - Because inactive accounts cannot log in and hence they do not increase lag - The data they take up for the offline skilling is one line in an XML Table and the algorithm to implement the skilling shouldn't be in a higher complexity class than O(n).
If you guys - back when CCP called it a feature - didn't take advantage of this technique then its all your fault. So don't blame ppl who've been simply a tad smarter than you.
Analogy:
If I agree to work a job in RL and get paid $5000/month then I shouldn't be mad at the guy who works the same job for $5500 - Simply because I AGREED to do the job for the amount of money I get paid!
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 12:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Mat Tassik
Well, I was very amused about the first try to explain why "ghost learning" - nice try to give this thing a negative smell - is needed. ...
Yeah, thought about this as well:
BOO! LOOK AT MOI, I AM SPOOKY, EBIL GHOST-SKILLER!
So CCP: If it's called Ghost-Skilling then why can other players still target and shoot me in my ghost skilled HAC's 5? Shouldn't my char have acquired transcendent abilities such as immunity and invisibility by ghost-skilling spaceship command skills?
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 14:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tivookz
For US players perhaps.
However the majority of the eve players don't live in the US.
Tiv
Ok here is my balance sheet:
Started playing in JAN 2006,
2nd Account MAR 2006,
3rd Account in NOV 2006,
4th Account in December 2006,
Paid with RL money, via regular Credit Card subscription to CCP
I lost interest, got busy with RL in August 2007 - however kept 4 account for the training because I expected to come back soonish.
In September 2008 I stocked down to 2 accounts because of the introduction of 60d GTCs and the removal of 30d and 90d GTCs.
Now i've started buying skilltime - I do not refer to it as playing time, because I don't play - with my accumulated ISKs.
Once the ISKs and assets are drained I am prolly going to hand over my chars to some good friends.
but anyways here the balance:
Months of skill time paid for: 30, 29, 18, 21 = 98 months.
Months I played the game other than skilling: 20
Game time in months I paid for skilling exclusively: 41
Game time in months I am going to pay for for the sole purpose of skilling with RL funds: 0
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 15:55:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Janus Duo
He meant to post on his alt BIind and so he changed it. ;-)
tis! :p
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:13:00 -
[7]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
what i dont get is all that talk of warhammer
i mean
where be the spaceships!
somebody find me a spaceships mmo that has every aspect eve has
untill then i shall not emoragequit
however i just wont pay for my main and in all probability will let my alt run out
unless of course you know some higher ups grows some balls and appologises for questioning our inteligence (to put it lightly)
Ok how to simulate EVE-Online:
Start up ICQ, enter a chatroom with 10-1000 people, hand out WARSHEEP-invitations to 5 different ppl at the same time and start to play against them while downloading 5 different **** movies for extra lag - oh and pay me $14,95 per month 
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 17:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: IR Scoutar
ahh but it still needs a nebula background that blinds you together with pretty ships yet ugly planets and moons n stuff
oh and the ships need to shoot thru themselves before they hit their target only to display the message that you missed completly
Dood thats yer desktop background meant for:
Search a piccy of sum spaceship in nebular and make all ICQ-windows transparent and overlapping! :P
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.18 19:39:00 -
[9]
Originally by: rofflesausage
They should have banned the plethora of Macrominers before they even thought about touching this. The number of macrominers I've seen reported and nothing done about is shocking 
Well perhaps CCP doesn't do anything against the ISK-Farmers because they pay their account subscriptions on regular basis - Unlike the ebil Ghost-Skillers!
Who knows, when everything is about the money, then perhaps the ISK-Farmers even got a decent deal with CCP! :)
For the very least the ISK farmers annoy the community and distract from the real issues which would then be addressed to CCP 
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 20/10/2008 20:56:17
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 20/10/2008 20:54:29
Originally by: Procurator Ultio
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
and we hope that over time we can prove our committment to make EVE better than ever...
Stuff it. Keep your hacked up game.
I now actually look forward to news of layoffs at CCP and CCP eventually going out of business. Much as I love Eve, I would give it up forever in a heartbeat as the price to see you *******s punished by going out of business.
Propably the best post on this topic until now - And I've been reading through about 80% of this thread! In fact I haven't been as interested in EvE for a year as during the past few days.
Perhaps thats the rotten, morbid smell I am sensing...
I turned from an addict with 6+ hours playtime on 4 accounts to some burned-out nostalgist.
The only thing which kept renewing my subscription was the training of long term skills and the occasional rub-it-in to old friends :-P
So if CCP thinks they didn't charge me enough for 2-4 accounts - which I had logged in about 5 hours a month spinning the station cam around fancy ships I never undocked anyways - then be it so.
I got my old EvE buddys on MSN anyways - Oh and for the fancy shippys I am just gonna use 3DS Max.
In fact it's not even the monetary aspect, that hurts me - It's the various aspects which Procurator Ultio pointed out so nicely in his post:
*The use of Owellian Speak (Hello 1984!),
*The spinning,
*The baldfaced lies,
*The greed,
*The kick in the butt by a company, which leeched over $1000 of me for a laggy chat room
*The ignorance that they believed they can pull this one off without being noted!
@t0rfifrans: Do yourself a favor and leave the sinking ship while you can!
Because no company is gonna hire you, if EvE failboats and the rumour spreads you're responsible for shooting CCPs cashcow into the head!
In the end, this seems to be the Katharsis after which some of us will finally be able to let EvE go...
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.21 06:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DorXtar
I hate this change as much as the next person, but after allowing my subprocessor to churn over it a bit, it actually makes a lot of sense on multiple levels.
Why did CCP allow ghost training in the first place? As a gift to early adopters to make up for the lack of consistency in the performance of the infrastructure. EVE didn't always work as it should, and "our logs show nothing" was endemic, but at least you could ghost train. Sure, you lost isk to stupid, random, unpredictable glitches and crashes, but ghost training was the duct tape that kept a lot of people going in EVE.
Now that CCP has some confidence and momentum in the performance of their infrastructure, an obvious step is to remove ghost training in preparation for the influx of new blood. If you don't remove ghost training early enough, the new blood will get used to it, and will take it for granted. Before the new wave of new players hits, CCP takes out ghost training. Smart move.
Walking in stations is a big deal. It will attract more people to the game, despite what everyone else may say. Add to that, large fleet battle engagements will become a big draw now that they will consistently work without the amount of issues that existed before with the same number of players.
CCP never had the means to support mainstream status, content-wise or in terms of infrastructure. Now that the infrastructure is stable and robust, CCP can implement features into the game that will support the attentions of the mainstream.
Just as the old old veterans, early-adpoters if you will, had a time advantage on noobs, well, a lot of us had the ghost-training advantage that helped us in the pocket book, which we wholly deserved considering all the lag deaths and losses most if not all of us encountered at one time or another in EVE life.
If everyone adopted your posting habits this thread would have been 4000 pages long.
Basically because all your points have been already discussed just a few posts before over and over FFS.
But here it comes again: It's not the money - It's the way CCP tries to spin it.
And no: GhostSkilling wasn't intended as complensation for cluster mishaps.
CCP says it was a bug all along! So you just suggested expoiting a bug with your compensatory measure thory. In conclusion CCP should ban you for this self righeous act! :o)
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Richard Aiel
for all the "i quit screw you" and "-x accounts" posts I have yet to see the affect on the online numbers in coldfront
looks like ppl are screaming about leaving on forums and then playing behind the forums back lol
Whom does Coldfront get the subscription numbers from btw?
CCP? - Your trustworthy Orwellian Information Network? :P
Even if subscriptions go down its doubtful that they will publish this.
Hopefully EA takes over CCP quickly enough to fire the whole management! 
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.21 18:08:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Davina Braben
Interview with Torfri:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/14/feature/2349/Ghost-Training-Interview
Highlights:
Repeats that it was simple oversight that we all thought this was a feature but CCP thought it was a bug.
Affirms that they had the opportunity to remove it earlier but didn't bother (is this true? Was there an earlier Sisi patch and a hullaballoo that resulted in them not bothering?).
Thinks this will have no impact on returning customers.
“We announced it as a bug, which it was to a lot of us old devs, but as it turned out, our website listed it as a feature because we had outsourced the writing of our career guide to someone who was not knowledgeable about the code itself, years ago back in 2004… It was like a virus waiting to get out and nobody had really given it much thought until it was pointed out when the whole debate started.”
Omg it was like a virus waiting to get out! - This sounds like the plot to the next Resident Evil movie - Since when belongs CCP to the UMBRA Corporation?
I asked whether the company was concerned that some players would not re-subscribe to the game because of this decision:
“Probably some.” He answered and acknowledged. “Probably some who have become accustomed to it, and I realize that. Because if they’ve grown accustomed to it as a feature of the game and now we’re taking it out, but I genuinely hope that they’re going to come back. We’ve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising and we’ll be making an announcement at Fanfest regarding stuff that’s coming very soon in the future which hopefully will make our players come back in big numbers because we’re putting things into the game that a lot of people have been waiting for for a long time.” Don’t get too excited though folks, he was also quick to point out that walking in stations is still in the longer future but that an announcement regarding in-space gameplay would be coming at Fanfest (which MMORPG.com will be covering).
- Before You start giving interviews get your facts straight: Your own marketing crew calls it QUANTUM RISE not QUANTUM RISING. Perhaps another example of miscommunication? Did you outsource your interview ghost-writers, too?
“At the end of the day, it wasn’t fair and we decided to shut it down. We anticipated that people might be upset about it. We did not anticipate such a big uproar about it.”
- Not fair for your wallets? Talk about fairness much? Whom did it hurt? I for one would call a pay per play system fair which only charges you for playing when you are actually playing! But I guess thats the deviation of peoples opinions...
“At the time,” Torfi explained, “we had not introduced EVE time codes. Everyone was using credit card subscriptions so it was more of an effort to un-subscribe and re-subscribe than it is today. That’s why it wasn’t such a common play style back then.”
- You only introduced the GTCs in order to maximize the revenue from ppl who like the fancy stuff but don't have the time to grind - hence prefer to shop it. Don't hate the player - hate the game!
Overall, I have to say I am stunned by the avalanche of ignorance I just got struck by!
You had your free ticket to earn some understanding and respect back but you had to to take it to the economic useless bullpoo!
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.23 22:38:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 23/10/2008 22:41:03
Originally by: Grath Telkin
Originally by: Gideon Fawkes
It is amazing that there are so many folks so stressed over this. This "feature" was a mechanism by which a player who had to step away from the game for a bit; say for business tavel, military training, or college finals - then they would be enticed to come back to the GAME when they were able. This was a perk and the "feature" as it was described a few years ago does mention that if a player steps away or has to let thier account lapse for unforseen reasons then thier training would continue.
I have to wonder how many people who are so upset are some of the same who abhor macro-mining. (I count myself among that number; macro miners = maggot runts). I'm pretty sure that those macro-miners have active accounts. However, they probably spent those long months training to Exhumer III or V on ghost accounts. How many of these folks will say that macro-miners are wrecking the economy with their acctions?
This reminds me of a company picnic a few years back. One of the less tactful co-workers - instead of bringing immediate family - invited his whole clan and thier neighbors to the event. My friends and I stopped counting at around twentyish. These folks effectively camped the grill for several rounds of free cheeseburgers and soda. As the supplies dwindled under this onslaught, one of the more simple minded of their lot began wrapping up burgers and stuffing them in her purse for her neighbor and the neighbors children when she was notified via cell phone that her friend lacked the gas money to attend.
(Hmmm... Salary-luxury= lack of necessities)
At any rate, these were not inherently evil people. They were just of that mindset that one must indulge every freebie to the fullest and don't stop until someone closes the faucet - even to the point of being tacky or if it denies anyone else thier due.
In the end, instead of an enjoyable afternoon at the lake with horse shoes and kids making fiends with co-workers kids, the managment has settled for a dinner for two voucher at the local steak house presented to each of the employees. It kinda ruined the whole concept, but it was better than expecting that everyone was capable of understanding the spirit of the gesture.
Myself, I do not have a ghost training account and so will not understand the soul crushing tragedy of losing this exploit. But for those of you with burgers stuffed in your shirts or purses, at least you still have developed uber-carebear characters that you can sell or transfer to your paid accounts. After all, there is still a mechanism for that.
In the end, the line has to be drawn somewhere. And much like a business manager that wishes to show gratitude to employees and thier families, it kinda sucks that you have to draw the line where it imposes on everyone and ruins it for those that understood the spirit - and unspoken limitations - of it all.
My 0.02 ISK.
Gideon Fawkes - Cheap combat alt of a paid account.
were done here, this guy wins
I don't think so...
... because his analogy doesn't describe what happened, nor why most people are upset.
So once again it comes:
Most people aren't upset about the neglected freebee but the way CCP handled the situation.
To continue with this wonderful analogy let's assume the said company held an annual BBQ for the employees.
Stating everyone is welcome and all the drinks and the food is for free.
After five years the company realizes that there are 250000 employees of which there are about 10000 attending on a regular basis to the BBQ.
So the economist who recently joined the management - even tho he clearly belongs into the controlling - gets an idea: "Hey, why don't we start charging our employees for the annual BBQ - this way they will still have all the fun, we get moar money for hookers oh and its fair for the employees who arent attending to the BBQ, too!"
Btw: Sniggs still crying over the nanonerf? :P |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.23 23:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 23/10/2008 23:15:00
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 23/10/2008 23:13:42
I asked whether the company was concerned that some players would not re-subscribe to the game because of this decision:
“Probably some.” He answered and acknowledged. “Probably some who have become accustomed to it, and I realize that. Because if they’ve grown accustomed to it as a feature of the game and now we’re taking it out, but I genuinely hope that they’re going to come back. We’ve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising and we’ll be making an announcement at Fanfest regarding stuff that’s coming very soon in the future which hopefully will make our players come back in big numbers because we’re putting things into the game that a lot of people have been waiting for for a long time.” Don’t get too excited though folks, he was also quick to point out that walking in stations is still in the longer future but that an announcement regarding in-space gameplay would be coming at Fanfest (which MMORPG.com will be covering).
Just took a look at the new Dev Blog of Quantum Rise/Rising/Rice/whatever and I must say I am amazed:
The Orca looks like so much fun:
*250% bonus to range of tractor beams (70km)
*100% bonus to tractor beam velocity (1km sec)
*500% bonus to survey scanner range (~125km)
*Can fit gang mods
This is so IMBA PWN! It's way too decent to be true - I'd suggest CCP should review the bonuses again because 500% surely seems overpowered!
And then the Grouping move of awesomeness:
Imagine you no longer have to press F1-F8 - NO! - Now u simply right click on yer gunz, select the enter grouping mode and then click on the gun button - thats optimisation eh?
I guess the phrase "Don't speak English - F1,F2,..." is dead from now on!
It's awesome how CCP keeps people interested in the game:
They remove Plexes - yet they implement broken exploration without rewards after 10h escalations.
They cripple carriers - yet they introduce the capital ore shippy everyone and their dogs abuses for hauling.
They nerf nanoships - yet they rebalance the shuttle production time by 33%!!!!1111
They disable the bug previously called resubscription-quarantee - yet they implement a totally overpowered superhauler with 500% survey scanner range! ROFL!
I must admit Quantum Rise clearly made me wet my panties!
BTW: Did you know a quantum is referred to as a very tiny piece of matter? So a quantum rise would be ... oh wait .... ! :P
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.26 11:17:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.26 15:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
Originally by: Sandy Minge
Originally by: Haldane Fisher
It's strange that more members of bob are not crying out about this. I'm not sure if they've been told not to talk about it, what I can say is that on the bob corp forums I have access to there is 0 discussion.
As for bobdev comments...pure tin foil I'm afraid. And unfortunetly for Cassius...he just doesn't get it.
LOL, get a clue Dewd - there is a 3 page discussion on the forums with ppl disagreeing with CCPs direction!
What part of bob corp forums do you not understand?
yeah sure pick out the raising by refering to a single corp forum while not mentioning the main forum - guess your not as informed as you want people to believe |
Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.10.30 18:27:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Ranger 1
Edited by: Ranger 1 on 30/10/2008 18:08:41
I could care less about the questions you pose, as they are irrelevant. I DO care that if you and I both have two accounts, you can train one of them up to the same level as mine while paying a fraction of the amount I do. Needed to be fixed at some point, was fixed at some point. Not much more needs to be said.
Given the best case scenario of having a cap ship char the skill plan might look something like this:
Capitals5 - 60d
GTC 60d in order to change skill
Carriers5 - 60d
GTC 60d in order to change skill
Dreads5 - 60d
GTC 60d in order to change skill
year passed
So even in the best possible scenario the "ghost skiller" would have paid 50% of the non ghost skiller costs. Hardly a fraction of the money - especially when considering that this is a one time oppurtunity in an eve chars life and most skills are about rank 6-9 which would raise the level of subscriptioness to around 75%.
Besides: If you care about the fact that ppl might get service cheaper than you so much, then you should get CCP to remove/fix the Power of 2 proposition, as it clearly allowes people to train up alts cheaper.
In fact - when thinking about this response - someone might come to the conclusion that you are a greedy, selfish, nitpicking bastard who is just crying out everytime somebody else might have gotten an advantage over you! Pathetic and disgusting!
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.11.10 06:43:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Squirrrel
Edited by: Squirrrel on 09/11/2008 20:07:21
Originally by: Soma Khan
Why don't y'all discuss the expansion coming on March 10 '09? That'll keep the thread alive for quite some time, no?
Can I talk about Eve TV and Fanfest instead, and the fact that some people think CCP are lying about the reasons for not broadcasting a live feed?
Perhaps they wanted to ensure there is not gonna be any "Ghost-Fans", who would normally attend to the Fanfest but might turn into cheapskates, who save the ticket costs by watching the Livestream! :P
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.11.12 16:56:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Sandy Minge on 12/11/2008 16:57:02
I just took a look into the "tiny rising"-Expansion!
The Certificate thingy looks pretty interesting in terms of product chaining:
1) So in Quantum Rise the certificates are being introduced as a feature.
2) Within the summer Expansion they gonna be made mandatory for using ships and items - thus replacing skills.
The CCP-spin might look something like: "Within the scope of making prerequests for ships/modules easier we decided that capsuleers will require certificates in order to use given items! - "Certificat, which have already been introduced in Quantum Rising are mandatory for the operation of ships and modules and will be handed out by CONCORD if the capsuleer has learned the necessary skills!"
So far so good, as certificates will be still based on skills.
4) The next logical step - U HEARD IT HERE FIRST - is gonna be certificates for isk or for GTC playing time
"We came to the conclusion that newer EvE-players got a disadvantage over older characters as they are never able to reach their Skillpoint level. So we decided that capsuleers should be able to decrease the SKILL-GAP by the aquisition of certificates! Certificates can now be obtained in the 4 flavors Basic, Standard, Improved and Elite from every Station!"
5) PROFIT!
Can I haz t0rfis job now?
- What? You saying that you are planning this already? - Awww! 
Edit:
Originally by: b0gz0r
Bitter Ex CCP Marketing alt spotted
- Hai b0gz0r :)
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Sandy Minge
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Posted - 2008.11.13 12:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Darth Vaders
I support the recent change. It was like an exploit before. It's fair people to pay for a service they use.
I fully endorse this post and therefore I demand 84 additional hours of gametime for my 60d GTC!
The reason is the patchday where I havent been able to play for a whole day and the sceduled downtimes. 60D Game Time Card means 60 Days which equals 24 hours - however I am losing 1 hour per day which ammounts to 60 hours per Game time card!
It's fair people recieve the service they pay for!
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Sandy Minge
Minmatar
Minge Deep-Core-Drilling
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Posted - 2008.11.13 16:46:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Darth Vaders
When that happens can i have your stuff? 
Originally by: Darth Vaders
When that happens can i have your stuff?
Originally by: Darth Vaders
I could have "cheated" using that trick with the ghost training but i didn't do it cause i think it's LAME and in all honesty i feel that Eve online will be a better place without the kind of people that were doing that on purpose.
Oh what an adorable cute little troll you are! *cuddles Darth Vaders*
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Sandy Minge
Minmatar
Minge Deep-Core-Drilling
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Posted - 2008.11.13 18:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Emma Royd
Edited by: Emma Royd on 13/11/2008 17:39:53
... stuffz ...I'm not going to trawl through hundreds of posts to pick any particular comments.
blah ... blah ... rubbish
If you don;t have the dignity to read at least some of the posts already been made why should anyone bother replying to you properly?
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Sandy Minge
Minmatar
Minge Deep-Core-Drilling
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Posted - 2008.12.07 13:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gabriel Braun
blah blah ... ccp fainboi ... rant yadda yadda ... blubb
Thanks for the free bump, Troll
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